The Bliss of Confirmation Bias: — w/ Covfefe Anon

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00:00 And then like I kind of thought about it and reviewed and realized how and why people like go viral and what takes get big and like how to make a big take. And the answer is you want to have a statement that some people agree with and some people disagree with. But then you don't want to make the best possible case for it. You want to make a case for it that the people against it feel like they can argue against it because it's like, "Oh, that's so stupid. Let me point out the error." >> Yeah. It's not concrete and and it's it shouldn't even be that it's necessarily a bad case. It can also be a case that has a lot of holes, generalizations, or assumed or implied gaps in understanding, right? It should literally just be something that causes the average person who's unfamiliar with

00:46 you and the algorithmic sphere that you exist in to misinterpret you. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And then and then that gets that gets that gets like the PvP engagement and then once you do that it's it's like it's over because then it explodes. >> Welcome to another episode of the plausibly deniable experience sponsored by Poly Market, Zcash, Passage Press, and Citizen X. Today we will be discussing SA. Go on. I don't remember what the >> Today we're going to be discussing the bliss of confirmation bias. Okay. How blissful. >> Wait, the bliss. Are we saying the bliss confirmation bias? >> The bliss something we're doing to try and make a good title. >> We're trying to make >> I feel it's a good title, man. It's >> I feel like if you say the bliss of

01:31 anything in a YouTube video, it's like we might get flagged. Like [laughter] >> you think so? Why? >> For what? >> It's just like >> the plausibly deniable bliss. The plot like it's like [laughter] >> I don't know, dude. >> That was Have you guys talked about the Odyssey at all? And the no >> we haven't. We We didn't watch it. Not because I'm going to be totally honest boy. >> No, no. We did talk about it. >> Didn't we watch any movies? >> No, no, no. We did the Odyssey Discourse, but we did it when we were like we're going to start a new segment on the show and it's called uh >> five minute movie films that we haven't watched, right? >> Okay. Cuz I haven't watched it either. So, I'll fit perfect. I'll fit [laughter] right. >> Holy holy [ __ ] This is so based new

02:16 weekly segment where we discuss we discuss like the piece of media that came out but no one's allowed. [laughter] >> We're doing like meta reviews. It's like reviews of the reviews of the commentary that goes on >> because >> there's a really good um I think there is a really good performance art to this. >> Oh, absolutely. >> To to this idea of like [laughter] I'm discussing the thing without having even ever seen it. Well, it's even funnier, too, when you imagine there's someone who's listening to us doing it, too, right? And then [laughter] there's another person who listens to us describing the described review, >> and then they're telling someone else about So, it's like you're now like eight chains down [laughter] >> the information ladder.

03:02 So Emily Wilson, who is the uh who is the author of the that horrible translation that everybody absolutely hated her for of the uh of the Odyssey in the first place with like tell me tell me Omuse of a complicated man where it begins with that and then she like changes Helen's lines to make her like to be to be like more feminist. Um, she writes a review and the review of Nolan's Odyssey is like, "Yeah, they turned they turned a they turned him into a wife guy [laughter] and it was and it's like this is horrible. They turned him into like a wife guy with like modern conservative modern like trad morality and it's ridiculous." And it was it was the funniest review watching her like savage Nolan for this

03:47 and like watching the way people like lined up like who was defending and who was attacking and like Bapt didn't like her review because he like focused on the bits where like I feel like she had to like performatively throw in some bits where she was like, "Oh, they turned the black people that they put in there into like the magical negroes." And I was like, "All right, that's like that's her putting like a soop to like a soop to like what she has to say because she's an academic and like the serious criticism was like her being like, "Yeah, no, actually this was just like horrible at the work itself, but I haven't seen it." So, >> I saw everybody say that the translation was really bad and I was like, the thing with translations that's always been kind of goofy to me is uh you'll see

04:32 everyone say like, "Yeah, dude, it was such a bad translation." And then you're looking at the person posting it and you're like, can this person read Greek? >> Like, can this person read the original Greek? And it's like, no, 100% chance they cannot. So, you're it's it's sort of the same thing as our movie review idea that we have where nobody has read the original source context and yet they're all arguing back and forth about it. And when you zoom out again, this is just kind of history, right? Like every time you see a Wikipedia edit war over any historical thing or you see two professors who are arguing uh in an academic setting over what happened in a given war, it's all just people trying to cope history into being what they wanted it to. And like you win if you get to rewrite the Odyssey as your

05:18 feminist novel, right? And you lose if the other person says the Odyssey is like about a completely different and unrelated thing now. Like Homer was gay. Uh, all of the children were like women. He was a massive girl dad. Like something like that, right? [laughter] Um, I don't know. >> I think it is it is this new you you can't actually like entirely review media without ever having seen it at all nowadays because the new strategy at one point they changed this. You can tell from the trailers at one point they changed from like, oh, we won't spoil the movie to now every movie is spoiled effectively in the trailer because it it apparently just performs better. Like people just want to be spoiled before they go in at all. They would rather

06:03 know what the ending is actually. >> Do you remember spoiler alert tabs on websites? >> Oh god. Yeah. Yeah. What a crazy what a crazy time of media supremacy the the early 2010s were with like spoiling someone was as bad as like murdering. It was it was truly it was so cringe in Reddit, but in some ways it was the last sign of like a culture that had something in common. Like everyone was watching Game of Thrones, you know, or whatever. That doesn't happen anymore. No one's watching the same thing now. >> I mean, you remember you remember what the big one was, right? I mean, it might be a little before before your time sale was Breaking Bad. No, the big one was uh I have a funny Breaking Bad story, but the big one was Snape killed Dumb Dumbledore when like everybody would put

06:49 that like is like that was a big internet meme where like they would like they would put that in like they would write a thing and then at the end it would be like oh yeah Snape killed Dumbledore and like that was the big like that was like the big oh my god >> I remember this millennials were so unbelievably still are but so unbelievably gay it's it's amazing actually things that like if you were to look at the corpus of millennial memes, it's like >> simultaneously they're the seeds of everything that wound up like germinating within the zoomers, but also it's just all of this total like Harry Potter Marvel slop before we had terms to define any of that. Right. >> Yeah. >> But like the big I don't know like I always blame I blame Jos Weeden for a lot of that stuff and like the whole oh

07:35 blah blah blah. Oh, he's standing right behind me, isn't he? Oh god. Like just that that that whole genre of humor that I hated that so much. >> That was Firefly, right? >> That was Firefly. Like Well, that was him when when he was like good on Firefly, but then like I feel like he just became like a self-parody and like and and or or the imitators of him were worse, but like that whole like like millennial snark humor, like that like kind of infested Marvel was was like a nightmare. But it's over now. It's all over cuz cuz they they turned Marvel into a girl boss woke thing and then nobody cares about it anymore. So we've been freed from the yoke. >> Funny how all of the like really old internet rules. You'd be like, "Oh, well that's a generalization, but it's not true for this person under this circum." And it's just it's always wrong. Like

08:21 all of the generalizations are always 100% true to everyone in every account. [laughter] I mean there are exception. I don't know. There are the thing is the exceptions that I see on No, you know what it is. If you have if there are exceptions that are really big, then you haven't formulated your rule correctly is really what it's telling you. >> Like all of the rules from the internet, we've seen internet behavior for a long time now. >> Yeah. >> Right. There's only there's only so many ways that you can have a textbased interaction with someone. We've kind of solved all of them. We've kind of solved all of the pathization of everything. We know what we're going to get from this stuff. And so, uh, if our rules weren't accurate and they didn't work, you would kind of assume that the human race is doomed and we're just all >> Well, it'd be very strange if they stopped working or like like you have

09:07 this many years of interactions and then all of a sudden it doesn't work. That would be very weird, wouldn't it? >> It would be unsettling. >> Well, it was super funny how there's that one study that's like uh stereotypes are one of the most reproducible effects in all of science. So you just you can hit them with a like, do you trust the science or not, bro? Like what's [laughter] going on? >> I saw you I saw that reply of yours where you put that out there. It's it was good because it's like like stereotypes are a great example. It's like well why do you think that stereotype like if stereotypes were wrong, people would eventually discard them because they would stop matching reality. This is another one of those areas though where coming back to the theme of the episode, the confirmation bias thing. Uh

09:52 >> people will just invent like if you tell somebody that stereotypes are usually correct. >> Uh oftentimes they won't even argue with it. They will just invent different stereotypes. You know >> what do you mean? like just they'll invent wrong stereotypes and be like what about >> all of the traditional all of the traditional negative racial stereotypes that people have about anything there is a left-wing inversion of that right so you can have whatever whatever the right-winger might think about Indians and then the left-winger would say oh yeah the Indian stereotype about how they're smarter than all Native Americans and they're harder working and higher IQ and funnier >> right >> and then They'll be like, "Yeah, I agree

10:37 that stereotypes are correct." >> Well, that's that's leftists are just leftists. The way they lie, the way they lie is like a very there's like two ways that they lie that's like very specific is like one is they they they lie on the meta level like you said. They make up the claim and then they say, "Oh yeah, I agree with that claim that you made." Where it's like, "No, I didn't make that claim." And in fact, you invented that stereotype just now. Like that's a thing you made up just now. That's like one way that they lie and that's really prominent. And then the other way that they lie is like they'll say like they will attribute someone else's motivations to them having knowledge that what they're doing is false. Like an example I saw like um how much how

11:23 much are we supposed to mention about other people? Like we're not supposed to mention other people. try to keep it very depersonalized and very meta in general just to make it more broadly applicable and to make anytime you mention other people it increases the chance of some sort of gay Twitter drama feud or >> I agree and I you said that the first time I was on here and I thought that was very wise and I was trying to avoid that. I think it's also like it's kind of intrigue maxing, right? Like you >> like if you say something about a particular person, it's a very mundane thing that you're saying whereas you go we all know who we're talking about now. You've intrigue maxed the audience is now curious who you're talking about and then what you said like applies more broadly and you can't really be wrong anymore, right? It's it's unfalsifiable.

12:08 It's a brilliant rhetorical tactic. This >> is now the guy who's leaning against the wall doing uh it's like the drive green text. >> Oh, the one. Okay. >> SA's SA's game is just >> if I don't ever say anything, >> they won't catch me. [laughter] Like, have you seen that one great green text about Drive where it's like the guy's like, "Yeah, all I did was I started acting like Ryan Gosling from Drive [laughter] and now I have a girlfriend and a kid with her." And then the other day she says, "Hey, do you want to check out this movie?" And I got really nervous and [clears throat] then I thought, "What would guy go do?" And I was like, "No, that movie looks pretty shitty to be honest. Let's just let's

12:54 just go do something else. >> [laughter] >> Dude, I keep I keep saying this and I continue to believe this more and more that like anyone who tells you that LAR like the use of LAR as a as a negative connotation is is totally incorrect. LAR is obviously a good thing. You should be laring at all times. LAR is obviously positive. You just need to do it harder. Like if you're if you're getting called out for laring, your real failure is that you're not laring hard enough. Because if you >> people stop calling people out for laring. I don't know if you've noticed this, but I'm seeing this with all the AI influencers where everybody knows that they're laring, right? Like when the guy is saying, "I'm walking through

13:39 the woods using my AirPods to command my swarms of Chad GPT agents over chat GPTO." I'm accomplishing more work in two hours today than I ever did at 16 hours of being at my desk before. Everybody knows this is like entirely made up, right? [laughter] But at a certain point, the guy who does his tweet and his tweets are shittier and there's less tweets. [laughter] >> But everybody everybody just kind of respects the hustle, right? They're like, "This guy is a grifter. Grifter is now it's gone from being just a blanket negative term to now a grifter is a sort of performance artist. Like you can exist as a grifter as a category of like an entertainment person, right? >> There's one specific guy I'm thinking of

14:25 who does such a >> because you managed to put the picture of that guy in my head when you were saying that and I know exactly who you're talking about and I'm not going to say it. >> We're doing we're doing the thing. Well done, guys. >> Sitting there sail sitting there like rubbing himself in ecstasy like, "Oh, they're doing it. We're so mysterious. Oh my [laughter] god, they're intrig intrig. So intrig maxing, if you intrig max too much around a guy, at a certain point they'll be like, "Dude, like stop. Like stop doing this. It's super gay." But girls have like an infinite demand for intrigue back. You can >> Girls have infinite demand for intrigue maxing. That is absolutely the case. Yeah. >> Yes. Yes. And and in fact, like you can tell a girl you're intriging and she will still appreciate your intrigue maxing. You should you should always be

15:11 intriging more around women. Okay. [laughter] >> There is a certain type of girl who will continually ask you what specifically you meant by any given thing and never stop until you tell her the information. Though, >> I will say they exist. >> Many of you may even know one. [laughter] >> I have someone in mind that I think that you're talking about that I know that I think you're [laughter] >> and I'm not intoxing. >> SA's fallen out of his chair now. He's like aggressively aggressively rubbing himself like, "Oh my god, I thought it couldn't get any better." [laughter] [laughter] In fact, in fact, actually, I think when when this podcast episode airs, I think

15:56 I'll send it to some of these girls and I'll say, "We were referencing We were ref we might have been referencing >> We were referencing someone that you know a lot about. >> Someone that you know a lot about." I think [laughter] >> I think we could just call it we could another a different title could be which would be so this would be insane clickbait is like this podcast is about you. [laughter] >> It would also cause so many people in Lucas in my life to go completely insane. [laughter] [snorts] All of the people in my life who can go insane are kind of doing it. [laughter] Like they're already doing it without any poking from me. It's just happening spontaneously. >> I I think I think the level of poking that you put these people through on a regular basis that doesn't register as poking to you anymore is [laughter] uh

16:43 is pretty high. I think that's that the explanation. >> Sure, dude. As the guy who got like hostily edited [laughter] for like a month >> cuz I I used a I used a thing in my personal life where I was like, "Oh, I'm I'm behaving like Lucas right now." And like the thing is it worked really well, but I was like, "Oh, okay. I'm this." I can see why he does this all the time. [laughter] I'm very good at gardening my local social sphere so that like anything that annoys me is forced out. [laughter] Like it it just no longer I don't have to tolerate it. Someone will get rid of it for me. [laughter] >> You should unironically become the guy from the drive copy, the green text. Not

17:30 not the movie, but the green on the green text. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Not the movie. So, this is the other thing that's weird about that green text is the guy in the movie is not that much of a gigachad. He's kind of like a turbo loser, but he is like totally unaffected by his surroundings, which I guess is is based. >> Yeah. >> Um, but he's kind of a massive loser. Like, he's into this girl who's like a mom >> in love with a random single mom. >> She's not even single. She's like on and off again. And then her husband comes back and he's like, "Oh, you can have her again." Which is like even worse, [laughter] right? Like >> that's like that's like, "Never mind, I don't want it now, man." >> No, no, it's not even like never mind, I don't want it. He's like, "Well, I guess this is like this is your family, your

18:16 thing." Like you, you know, go and have it back now. >> No, I'm I'm saying like if that happens to me, I'm saying never mind. I don't want it now. Like if if a guy comes back and says to me, "Oh, I see. Like you really raise her kids well, bro. It's like yours. I'm like, never mind. We're both [ __ ] out of this room. >> Like she she can be alone. >> I can I can accept it if it if if the knowledge of it would piss you off. But once you accept it, forget >> Yeah. Like I'm in this for the competition, bro. I'm not in this to just have a concession victory handed to me. Like, oh wow, you've really fathered you've really fathered that other kid well, man. You've really raised my son. [laughter]

19:03 >> I'm very disappointed because I thought you guys neither one of you would would have seen Drive and then we could have another section of a movie where we >> The funny thing about Ryan Gosling movies I've seen and you know this because every time anyone asks about any movie, you're all like really? I would have expected that Lucas would have seen that. It's like the most popular movie of the entire last 20 years. Uh, the only movies that I have seen are all of the Ryan Gosling movies because they're on airplanes. They come pre-loaded. And so when I'm scrolling through all the movies, I don't really recognize any of the names or the titles or anything, but I recognize Ryan Gosling from the Twitter profile picture. [laughter] Lucas is literally just a wine mom. Lucas is just a wine mom who's really into wine Ryan Gosling and like

19:48 humiliates her husband like, "He's so hot, honey. Can we go watch the Ryan Gosling movie?" like [laughter] just scrolling through the banners looking for Ryan Gosling's face on the [laughter] plane. >> Well, so I've seen I've seen the Bladeunner one. I've seen the drive one. There's another one that I watched. Uh yeah, but these are this is my I haven't watched the bar the Barbie one. That's one that I like I just can't bring myself. >> I haven't watched the Barbie one. The SCOP there was so >> minutes of it and I just gave up. [snorts] >> I just can't watch the Barbie movie on a plane in front of people. Like I have so little shame, but this is beyond even me. >> It's not a shame thing. I just I just don't think there was this weird There was the super forced meme about Barbheimer at the time where it's like,

20:34 "Oh, we go see Barbie and then we go see Oenheimer. Haha, isn't that so funny?" And it's like, isn't it so funny how you're total cattle who those studio executives have managed to get you to double your spend on movies? And it's like, you're stupid. You're just so stupid, man. >> Well, how about the whole like the discussion about, oh, Barbie is actually secretly based. No, it's not. >> I've heard people saying that Barbie is actually like a secret under like under the table fascist commentary. The one movie that I will say this is actually true about is the Angry Birds movie. Angry Birds. I think I've mentioned this before. >> Dude, the Angry Birds movie is crazy. >> The Angry Birds movie. Okay. Have you guys all seen it? Because I remember the first time I watched it. I watched it. you've actually seen it. [ __ ] that sucks. I was like I was about to say

21:21 confirm we haven't watched it so that we can properly discuss it. >> Dude, the list of movies that I've watched is winding up to be really crazy. [laughter] >> Ryan Angry Birds, every Ryan Gosling [laughter] movie, >> the based the based Angry Birds [laughter] movie. But I remember the whole time sitting through it and I I was watching this with a group of people who were like, >> "Did you watch this when it came out or did you watch this like after when people were like, "Yo, this is so based." Like >> I think it's on Netflix or something. Uh and I was just over at a house party and someone put it on and I'm like looking around at everyone like, "Dude, are you guys [ __ ] seeing this? Like [laughter] do you guys not understand what they're say?" But they're like

22:06 totally normal like college left-leaning people and I can't start ex I'm like dude it's like a critique of like Muslim immigration during the Trump year. Holy. And the eagle is the He's fat because it's a commentary on like the decayed state of the Western American emping [laughter] [laughter] you over the head. Like the pigs literally have the era of beards. It's cartoonish, bro. [laughter] >> It's so It's so funny, dude. Yeah. This came out in 2016, too. Like, you would have thought that the world was >> You would have thought that the world

22:51 was like worried enough about Trump that people would have realized like, wait, this movie is superb based. What's going on? >> I don't think so. I think that it's actually you see the reaction. Everything [clears throat] that reacts to Trump is after he's elected because they all expected him to lose. >> Well, but this was this was I mean I don't know when did this come out. >> But if it came out in 2016 then it was in production long before 2016. Especially an animated thing. >> It premiered May 7th. It was it was long before the election. But still, what a crazy >> There's no way that the person who made this movie was a liberal. Like it's not possible. >> Yeah. Many such cases though.

23:36 >> Like the birds were the good guys, >> right? It's so funny also how these movies that are based always make a trillion dollars. Like I'm reading through the Wikipedia [laughter] right now and it says it was projected to gross 35 to $40 million. And it's like it grossed $17 million. The only movie that has made money ever. And it's like it made $244 million in other territories. [laughter] >> Dude, you know what we should do? We should react to the Angry Birds movie. That would be such an epic soy jack moment for the podcast. We should have a podcast movie night in our Discord where we do a live reaction. >> Oh my god, dude. It's all coming full circle. Ryan Gosling. So, the nice guys came out [laughter] that same

24:22 same time. Ryan Gosling, who starred in The Night Guys, blames the Angry Birds movie for the film's commercial failure. [laughter] >> So dominant at the box office that it boxed out Ryan Gosling, dude. [laughter] That's so funny. Like I would have gotten more views if the Angry Birds movie hadn't been Imagine [laughter] Imagine doing this on like Twitter. tweet would have gotten more likes if Sailor didn't post that banger [laughter] on Friday. >> If his tweet wasn't so based, my tweet would have done better. [laughter] >> It was just a bad time, but the content was all there. [laughter]

25:08 >> Dude, I'm like reading through the reception and no one is talking about the political thing. Like, no one is just >> I know. That was the craziest part. I watched it and you just I I don't know, man. Obviously, you're not gonna be in a group of like normal left centristle leaning STEM students and have them all start like, "Dude, we should in response [laughter] to the Angry Birds movie, but I expected somebody to notice some of the these aren't like subtle, nuanced motifs. These are like the most glaringly, blatantly obvious symbols that I've ever seen in movies, right?" You know how you know how your wife is always sitting there saying like what did he mean by that or like what is

25:53 what happened here in the movie? She would not ask that once in the Angry Birds movie. It would be so apparent to even your wife what was going on here. >> Lucas has a very high opinion of my theoretical wife. So [laughter] I I will say the the cope that was always deployed about the Angry Birds movie is that it's about colonialism and not immigration, which is obviously not true if you're not, but it is actually kind of a good way to like see, you know, like crypto have this theme in your movies. You can just go, oh, you know, it's about it's about colonialism, not about immigration to the beards. You know, it's like, [snorts] >> did they make >> those are like the beards of Thomas Jefferson? You may be familiar.

26:38 >> This one woman did the Atlantic. >> This this one this one movie actually says that like he's comparing Donald Trump to the pigs. [laughter] >> Oh my god. I just don't understand because they literally have the bald e like the bald eagle is like the king of team bird. You could not have made it more obvious. >> Whatever. I'm like if you have many people I presume haven't seen the Angry Birds movie because it would be insane, right? Like how many of our viewers can possibly have seen this? >> Apparently more people than saw the nice guy. >> Yeah, I was going to say a lot of people have a lot of people have seen it, you know. >> Yeah, apparently a lot of based on the box. This is like the sort of thing that I feel like if you have young kids over

27:23 the age of five, they just drag you to your life becomes a living hell unless you take them to the Angry Birds movie. You know what I mean? >> That's probably why no one really does as a concept to make an entire movie and plotline over a game that's like a tower defense thing where you launch birds with a slingshot. [laughter] >> It's a good movie, sir. [laughter] It's like if you made a Tetris movie, right? >> Well, how do they even find the content for this within the game? >> Well, years ago, multiple Tetris movies actually. [laughter] >> That's not surprising. Years ago, there was You guys remember Funny or Die? Like a very early internet thing, like they

28:09 like used to make videos. There was a Funny or Die video where there were like they were like making fun of the concept of making movies about nonnarrative games. And like the thing was like they made a preview for like the mind sweeper of the game and like why are these mines even here was like a comment from like the fake trailer that they made for it, but they actually did it with Angry Birds apparently and it was massively successful. >> I feel like all of the jokes that everyone made early internet wound up >> Yeah. just being real. >> Yeah. Like people took them farther than anyone ever wanted them to and then they were like actually this was funny and we should have done it sooner. >> Yeah. I don't know. >> I think they made a second movie after which was super libtarted. Oh my god,

28:56 there's a there's a second sequel coming. Oh my god, they're making a third one of these. It's coming out, dude. Dude, they definitely after they realized after they realized that they had gotten tricked into making the most fascist movie of the last 20 years through Angry Birds one, they definitely chained this guy to the radiator and said, "We're going to have to [laughter] You're like, you have to write communist slop for the next 60 years or else you are going down in the Epstein open book." >> Yeah. I think in the second one in the second one they literally say like the birds are forced to team up with the pigs to stop the leader from destroying both of their islands. Like could not be could not be more on the nose. Like you

29:41 will atone for making the first movie too based. [laughter] >> You have to make a really soy movie now. [laughter] I'm picturing I'm picturing the James Bond scene where he's he's getting tortured by the guy. [laughter] He's like, "Make it really sweet." Like they're hitting him while he's strapped in the [laughter] chair. >> Do you see Do you see there's a clip? I I saw this on the timeline and I like didn't believe it. There was like a like a still from like the last James Bond movie that they wrote where where where Daniel Craig is James Bond is on the back of a Vespa being like written by like the black woman that's in the movie that's like apparently taking over his James Bond form. And he's like, not only is he on a Vespa, not only is James Bond

30:27 on a Vespa, he's on the back of a Vespa, like like hanging on to the woman as she drives. Just the most like I'm like, "This is a James Bond. Are you kidding me? Do you just hate your character? Do you hate the brand?" I mean, obviously they do, but it's like this is a movie that's ostensibly made to make money. Like, somebody actually pitched this with like, "Yes, we are going to put this out there and we are going to make a good return on this." and somebody believed it and it just seems >> Do you think they actually believe that it will make a return? >> No. No, not the people making it. The people making it know, but like I think that like >> I think there's a difference between the studio execs and then the the >> producers. Yeah. >> Yeah. The the finance guys don't really care. And the thing is a movie

31:13 takes a long time to make. And so it's kind of one of these things where like maybe you greenlight the movie and you get paid a bonus based on the money you're spending or whatever. then who knows if you're still around at the studio by the time it actually comes out. And if you are still around, maybe you're one of the people whose job just is mega secure and it doesn't matter at all, right? And like Disney mo most of these guys make money off of secondary streams or they make money off of rerunning sequels on existing franchises for a trillion years. So it just it just doesn't matter. The the one thing you can do is you can make a new movie that's actually really really good like Obsession or whatever. Um, I think the great innovation with Obsession is that it's a great premise. And I I think Western media has always had worse premises and Eastern media has almost always had better premises. I I think

32:00 Western media needs to upgrade and get better premises. >> Yeah, I agree. The thing, by the way, the one thing about James Bond that where differs from that a little bit is that like the character James Bond is owned by like one particular family. Like so it's not actually like like they work with the studio but like it's like the character is owned by one particular family. So they eventually >> Yeah. But that's like the thing where like you're you know you must study war so that your children can study finance so that your children can make like a gay reenactment of Hamilton. [laughter] >> And it's like [clears throat] you you must write bass James Bond stories so that your children >> can monetize them and their children can subvert the entire meaning of the whole thing.

32:45 Yeah. Well, to make up for the fact that you made money off of it in the first place. >> Yes. Yeah. When Well, the other thing I think about James Bond is they're trying to change it a lot because it's it's entering the public domain relatively soon. It enters the public domain in 2035 in Europe. >> Oh, wow. >> So, yeah. >> Wendy, I thought like isn't like Superman entering the public domain really soon? >> A lot of this stuff is entering the public domain lately. And so I actually my suspicion is that the reason they're pushing Supergirl and stuff like this and whatever >> is because um a lot of this stuff is just entering the public domain very soon and so they can't like they're going to be screwed. Especially dude, imagine how scared you have to be as an astudio exec today when all these

33:30 characters are entering the public domain and then there's AI that has been trained on the movies and the likeness of these characters. Like it's it's not only that your character is hyper successful and so a lot of people want it. It's not only that. It's not only that you've subverted your character and people want to subvert the subversion and go back to an unironic unapologetic nonp parody of the original that is even more intense in many cases. But on top of that, like Mickey Mouse, Superman, Batman, James Bond, all these people, you have tons of hours of of content that you can, you know, easily throw into AI and have it spit it out, right? Um, super easily. So, Lucas, I need to ask, are activated charcoal pills a meme? Cuz my my gut has not been great.

34:18 I'm curious. Is this like a meme? Should I do it or no? >> This is so like Lucas like Lucas, my tummy hurts. [laughter] Am I supposed to eat the rocks? [laughter] >> Activated charcoal. It's not like the deactivated like the normal the normal this is it's been [laughter] active. >> Well I one of my friends I'm I'm traveling with friends right now and one of them was like oh dude I have these activated charcoal pills and I was going to do the same thing where I make fun of them but I was like I probably shouldn't make fun of the guy offering me charcoal like offering me something in my moment [laughter] of of not feeling good. I looked it up. Apparently what activating charcoal means is just you're basically

35:03 increasing the surface area on it by doing [laughter] it. >> It's so funny. >> It's been >> It's such a good meme. >> It's not It's not a normal rock. It's not the normal rock. We made it into a bunch of smaller rocks. [laughter] >> It's such a good sales meme though. Activated. Activated is like a great word. Like it's not >> This is my activated activated thing. Well, it also implies that all of your competition has been deactivated [laughter] somehow. >> Exactly, dude. Like imagine who at the store is looking at like, oh, I have the activated charcoal over here, but no, I'm going to buy unact like deactivated charcoal. It's on. It's fine. Activated charcoal is one of those things where it's like, yeah, charcoal is good and stuff and

35:48 it'll get your toxins and whatnot, but uh I'm a very big believer that for most stomach pain, uh most of this [ __ ] is a meme and it's just going to suck. The best you can hope for is to just hydrate a lot. And uh I really like I really like drinking electrolytes because it just you lose all the fluids. But >> dude, I really like this movie thing we've got going on. Maybe we'll come back with like a piece of media we haven't consumed. >> SA [laughter] are you aware are you aware that this is like the running gag with podcasts is every podcast that is formed eventually devolves into media reviews because they've run out of all other forms of content.

36:33 [laughter] >> Okay, never mind. We can't do it anymore. It's like episode episode 17. Out of ideas. [laughter] >> Okay, we're on more than episode 17 by now. I feel like >> I'm so glad I could be here for the episode when we officially run out of ideas on the podcast. >> The final episode, the final original episode before we devolve into a Ryan Gosling movie review channel. We just only we only review, but we don't even review the movies. We review like Patrick Baitman edits that we find on Twitter. [laughter] >> So good. I think it's really funny how the Patrick Baitman avatar has become it it's gone so many full selfawareness

37:18 loops at this point where if you see someone it's like this could be a guy whose very first day of internet use was today or it could be somebody who is on his like 900 millionth burner account and he he knows every single thing that's ever happened uh throughout all of internet history right from when it started with Gamergate all through the current events that we're going going about now. Yeah. I don't I I think the big lesson with Patrick Baitman is never like normies an ironic critique never works. Like if you present your enemy as like, oh, I'm

38:03 gonna ironically make this guy super jacked, you can never do that. It just doesn't work as a function of critique. >> The human brain is >> Yeah, it's the same as and like this comes back in the this is another one that's like I feel like this is more Twitter slop than anything else, but it's like oh, have we uh have we had our quarterly discussion of Starship Troopers yet? Because that's exactly what Starship Troopers was. It was like he hates fascism, but and yet he presents this movie that everyone for the next x number of years is going to talk about. Is he endorsing it or not? Yeah, man. That's [clears throat] what you think because you're a first year film major and you think Starship Troopers is a really profound commentary on fascism. Unlike you, I'm enlightened and I prefer to take my fascism

38:49 commentary from Angry Birds 2015 [laughter] 2016, which is the pinnacle of fascism discussion. >> I like that you have to give the year now because we've learned that there's so many Angry Birds movies that it could have been any one of like seven. It's also such an epic like film snob thing to be like Angry Birds parentheses 2016. [laughter] It's such an epic film snob. It's another one of those like the this is something that I think our podcast does a lot in general is like the high low meme where you have you have something very lowbrow done in a highbrow way or very highbrow done at the most base. And >> we love doing this. We do this [laughter] all the time. >> It's good. We're like, "Wow, the joke." >> I'm just a big fan of counter signaling

39:35 myself while I am doing the thing. >> The best example of uh not being able to do an actual ironic critique that I can think of is do you remember the cryptocurrency Geo Bodden where it was it was this coin that was making fun of Joe Biden. And this coin was one of the big early runners in like 2024, maybe 2023 even. went up super high and everyone was like, "No, it's actually gonna be good when Joe Biden embarrasses himself because the coin is making fun of him and everyone will know to buy it if he embarrasses himself because that's like" And they started doing this weird like recursive cope loop because basically Biden just got ousted as being uh a scenile puppet, I guess, like someone who is he's being like remote controlled by

40:21 somebody who attached some sort of electrodes to his spinal column And of course, the the coin just starts going down when he stops being a candidate because like what is your interest in Joe Biden now that he's no longer running for president? Has anyone ever cared less about any person? >> He just instantly dropped out of relevancy. But they were all saying, "No, you should be buying the coin because that's exactly what the joke is." And everyone was like, "Yeah, I don't get it. I'm not buying." [laughter] >> But like there's no joke anymore. Like when Joe Biden said that we're going to build like we're going to build a rail connection across the Indian Ocean like you know like from the Pac from the west coast of America to India. We're going to we're going to make a rail connection. That's like a serious like okay you could make fun of Joe Biden for

41:06 that but you can't make fun of Joe Biden for anymore. It's like yeah he's a he's a guy who has like oatmeal for brains and he's not >> he's like I think Joe like oh dude that dementia patient is so evil and [ __ ] and you're like I guess [laughter] man. I mean, yeah, he's not a good guy, but he's also Yeah, >> that Joe Biden was secretly based and destroyed the Democratic party as his last act. [laughter] >> I mean, that's >> I always love this take. I This is like one of those repeatable takes that you can find multiple places to do. Like, you can do this with a sports franchise or whatever. I I think Joe Biden was secretly based and his dying wish was to destroy the Democratic party. That's my take. But I buy that Joe Biden intentionally sabotaged them because he

41:53 didn't even he would he didn't even make the choice to drop out of the race in the first place. >> I assume that he was using it as some sort of like a blackmail thing where he was like I will drop out if you give me this and they were like I don't want to do that and he was like okay >> I just don't think he wanted to drop out actually. >> I don't he didn't want to drop out. He I mean the guy is the guy's always been like has been running for president since like the the freaking 80s right? Um, and yeah, no, he didn't want to drop out and and like they like they had like some intern got access to his social media and was like, I Joe Biden, this is me. Really, I am Joe Biden. I'm I'm I'm resign. I'm not going to run for president anymore. And then like and then he was like in is remember he was in isolation like nobody could reach him for like a few weeks cuz he was at the

42:39 beach. Do you remember that? He went to like Maryland. He went to the beach in Maryland and nobody could reach him or Delaware. I don't remember. I remember I remember he would have all these bizarre incidents where he would just disappear. Joe Biden really did change the understanding of America in so far as the average person no longer believes in a presidency anymore really right >> like it's clearly a function that can be performed by lizard people operating puppets as we have been shown nobody knows if Trump is even doing anything right like Trump might be going Trump for all we know is not actually connected to any of the actions going on maybe it's Marco Ruby But Trump is going around and he's just doing podcasts in public and like speeches and stuff like that.

43:24 >> Uh but it's just totally destroyed the idea of president as authority figure in the US I think and it it introduced >> I think people want shadow government. >> I think people have always wanted wholesome chungus president for for a long time. >> I I just think people want people have wanted wholesome chungus president for the longest time. Like people don't want scary [ __ ] leader. That's that's the person you put in the secretary of state. That's your Henry Kissinger. >> You can't you can't have that guy in the, you know, he can be calling the shots, but he can't be in the driver's seat. It's it's got to be somebody else. >> The platonic ideal of the president is just like a genial affable guy like Reagan or something like that who just like goes out there and he's like, you know, he's >> Well, I think if Trump wasn't so

44:09 polarizing, if Trump was not so polarizing, he would clearly fit the bill for like the most American president like stereotypical American president >> Japan thinks >> do you think Trump would have done well 40 years ago like the version of Trump that could have existed 40 years ago do you think that he would >> that's a very different those are two very questions >> it's also an impossible question to answer because >> I think that's basically Kennedy is Kennedy not basically just Trump >> I could see it I could see the ways in which he's >> like a movie are he wants to destroy the deep state. Um, >> I mean, how how >> Well, how deep do you want to go

44:54 historically? Because the interesting thing about Kennedy was the interesting thing about Kennedy was that his father, you know, his father his father was in like the his father was the ambassador to the UK um under FDR and he was he was a significant he was a significant figure in American politics because he sort of represented the um the urban ethnics in in the uh in the FDR coalition. the urban ethnics. >> In other words, the Catholics and the Ir the the Catholics, the Irish, the Italians. >> Oh my god. He said the urban ethnics. I thought it was some sort of a coded language. I thought you were doing racism and then you're like it's the Irish. >> No, no, no. Racism, but just from like the 1950s, bro. >> No, no, it's not. It's not It's not racism. It's like literally one, that's what they were called. That's what they

45:39 were called. And two, like all of the cities got per Now here's >> not racism. That's what they were called. >> Here's [laughter] racism. No. No. Here's racism. Yeah. All right. Well, there's that. But like huge racism is like the cities got purged in like the 70 in like starting in like the 60s and 70s and then that's when like the cities kind of got taken over and like we're no longer dominated by like the the the uh the that was the term that they used for like the Catholic urban the urban Catholics and then they all like got pushed to the suburbs, right? But like so so JFK was the surviving brother when his older brother got killed in the war in like a ridiculous fashion. Um actually like they were trying to make bombers that were cruise missiles that they loaded the bombers up with Napom

46:24 and they were just crashing them into city centers in Germany and he was like supposed to fly it up and then parachute out and then let the bomb like like the bomber like kamicazi into like the middle of a city and he was killed. who was killed during one of those flights. So that was the that was the brother that Joe Kennedy, who was the father, wanted as the political figure. And I feel like this has gone completely in the wrong direction for you guys' podcast. >> Dude, I really want to have one of the people from the Nixon Foundation on to talk about the the strategy they're doing because they're investing into editors that are doing edits. And this follows one of my big theories, which is the edit is the native uh it's it's the native in the same way that you know the movie is kind of the the native media

47:11 format of the 20th century. I think the edit >> is the native media format of the 21st century. >> Yeah, the short form video clip. There's a guy there's a guy who I have in my DMs and I retweet him all the time. He like makes these fantastic edits. Like he did one for like Julius Caesar. It was like amazing. It was so good. >> I think the edit more so than than just short form. I do I think there's a difference between the edit and the short form. Um I I think edits are very interesting because they can communicate vibe with zero substance and then you got a bunch of people being like, "Oh, Julius Caesar's mega based." You know, they don't know anything about Julius Caesar, but he he looks based as hell in the edit. So they're like, "Yo, he's based."

47:57 Should I give a Should I give a plug to the guy? I really like his stuff. >> Yeah, I should give a plug to the guy. I don't care. >> Uh Samyaza Speaks is is the guy and he just has like I'm just looking at like I'm looking at our DMs. He's got like a great like a fantastic Julius Caesar one and then like he did a Nixon one too. So like you just reminded me of that. I No, I think so. There was one there's a bunch of Nixon ones that the Nixon Foundation had different commissioned for it for them. like they they commissioned it >> which I think is superb based also and very like forward of them >> like who whoever's running the Nixon Foundation deserves a round of appl applause because it's quite impressive to be someone who's running something like that and be yeah we're going to invest a bunch of money in edits like

48:42 that's in my opinion >> how do you even like align the incentives like that like how do you align the incentives to like like actually get the Nixon Foundation to like want to make Nixon like like like increase the Nixon prestige, you know what I mean? Like, how do you do that? >> Well, you need a good director of your foundation, which is just it's just a succession problem. How do you get a good person who runs the org correctly? >> Yeah. No, I mean you're right, but it's like how do you find >> I think the other part of the puzzle which is maybe what you're really asking is like how do you get someone who can both be like a foundation director but also understand the soft power of edits as a capacity for changing public perception about things without actually ever arguing on the substance. Like I think I think Nixon edits have changed

49:27 public opinion about Nixon much more than you know all these people doing their reprisals of hey what happened between the Nixon and and the FBI or Nixon and the deep state etc. I think a lot more people care about you know Nixon's gigab based and this edit you know >> I think you're right but I also think that it's the background that it's like you have to do the work in the background and >> you can do both doing both is probably very useful. It's a good strategy to go high and go low, like go across. >> But I mean, if you look at >> people just don't read anymore, like is the reality, right? So, what you want to do is you want to give people a bite-sized thesis that they can share with their friends, the one in every 50 people, 100 people who will actually read. And then everyone else, you want to just give them the edit. And then the

50:13 people with the edit go, "Oh, did you see this funny bass Nixon edit?" And then the friend, the one friend who does read goes, "Well, did you know like, you know, this came out and blah blah blah and whatever else. Or you have the one friend who reads and he's on your podcast and he spurs out about Kennedy. >> Yeah, truth, dude. [laughter] But that's what we have you here for. Okay. One one of us needs to actually consume consume primary media. >> Well, no, I think this is actually funny because I'm like I'm like actually like I'm like I'm like the generation and like listen to like I listen to the podcast. I'm like I'm like the one generation ahead of Lucas and then I listen to the podcast and I'm like, "Oh, okay." that one thing that neither one of them know. Like, all right, I know that. >> Yeah. >> I think he's been listening to all of her episodes being like, "Wow, I am the last generation that consumed

51:00 media longer than 3 minutes." >> I I mean, yeah, I feel like in a lot of ways I'm a man out of time. Like I can I can I can communicate across generation gaps and and I don't think that this is a common skill for people. I think a lot of people like lose their cognitive flexibility even like not even when they get that old, but when they get just older. >> Yeah. You have to be you always have to be so much more direct in communication. Now this is something that I mean you get this because Twitter four years ago you could be very subtle. You could be very vague. You could imply a lot of things and people would still understand what you were saying. Now you basically you have to hit the people. You have to say this is what I mean. This is what I'm saying. This is the conclusion. And then if you don't say that you'll realize because every single comment

51:45 will say something like what do you mean by this? and you're like, "Ah, [ __ ] I guess I just have to come out and say the thing." >> So, I told you this. I told you this and and if we save this for the later portion because this is like I feel like this is like evil knowledge to put out in the world and I almost don't want to say it. Um, but like I discovered the the accidentally from talking with somebody about like, oh, how did how does how does this happen? And then like I kind of thought about it and reviewed and realized how and why people like go viral and what takes get big and like how to make a big take. And the answer is you want to have a statement that some people agree with and some people disagree with. But then you don't want to make the best possible case for it. You want to make a case for it that the

52:32 people against it feel like they can argue against it because it's like, "Oh, that's so stupid. Let me point out the error." >> Yeah. It's not concrete and and it's it shouldn't even be that it's necessarily a bad case. It can also be a case that has a lot of holes, generalizations, or assumed or implied gaps in understanding, right? It should literally just be something that causes the average person who's unfamiliar with you and the algorithmic sphere that you exist in to misinterpret you. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And then and then that gets that gets that gets like the PVP engagement and then once you do that it's it's I it's like it's over because then it explodes. >> Yeah. >> And then it's it's it's funny because I discover that I do this when I do this I do it by accident only because like I

53:18 always want to be clear and like the thing the things though is that not everything that's clear to me is clear to everybody just because you know that's like life right? You don't know what everybody knows. Um, yeah. So, but then then I realized it's like, oh, okay, you people are don't think that I know this or don't think that I that I took that into account took that into account and so that's how you're that's why you're attacking this. >> Yeah. It's one of those things where everybody who's been posting for long enough has a uh >> they've all sort of developed uh >> like you'll have one algo sphere that you will feel screaming at you when you're typing one thing a certain way and you'll realize that you have to add some other piece of information to make them understand. And then you say something different and there's another sphere that you imagine screaming. And so you have to and it's just this whole

54:03 thing of constructing this rhetorical uh it's like those rubber band balls of just all of this [ __ ] that you have to package in to try and avoid 95 different misinterpretations. And then it's that is one option. And the other option is just say exactly what first comes into your head and all of these people scream at you and it goes gigafiral and you're like, "Well, which one is better in the end?" [laughter] >> And the funny thing is it's like, yeah, I keep optimizing for the first one all the time. Like I keep optimizing for building like the >> Well, now I would prefer there was a period where I was like intentionally being vague and unclear because I wanted I I basically wanted to see what would go viral, right? I had a solid year. This was when I had uh like the the

54:49 thing where I had a girl avatar for a day. Uh I was just doing a bunch of virality hacks to see what works. >> One day. You only had that. >> It was literally one day. I gained 14,000 followers in one day by having a woman avatar. >> I I had somebody in my replies who had like and I I talked to I talked to him. I eventually DM'd him and like it was like he had like I think it's like a like a far away picture of like Khloe Kardashian or something like that as his avatar and and I'm and it's like why did you do that? He's like he's like watch watch how many followers I gain. And then like in like two days he went from like nothing to like 15,000. It's just it's such a hack. Yeah. It's such a >> It's really really stupid. The only problem is the people who follow women

55:34 just don't actually read or communicate with the women at all. The thing that I noticed is you get all of these comments that are just completely unrelated to everything that you said. People basically just come to you with whatever uh problems they had that day or like whatever specific insecurities were triggered by whatever you said. But it's not like it's not even necessarily directly related to your post. It's like if you make some post about how you really like the beach and it makes them feel poor because they can't afford to go to the beach, they'll react in a way as if you called them poor, >> right? It's just this infinite title wave of I don't know. And then you >> but but the joke is that it's actually like I think that like if if it's an

56:20 actual woman on the other side of it, that's certainly a possibility that that was the aim of the woman communicating it in the first place. Like it's just a difference between female and male communication. And it's like these people are actually probably better. These people are probably decoding the communication better by like not actually looking at the words and like just kind of like getting the vibe. And it's like okay, what is this tweet meant to evoke in me and then that's must be the purpose of it. But that's that's the thing I was arguing earlier about this about this case with what what's her name? woman who uh who who the Leo who didn't kill her cubs. >> It might be real. I don't know. I just my one day of I I just very quickly did the math and I said I can be infinitely famous as an internet woman.

57:06 >> Uh but nobody will ever read anything that I say or take me seriously at all. I like it defeats the entire point of the internet. Why would I use this even? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean it's, you know, I mean it's nice. It's nice where like you go out there and you say things and people listen to what you say. It's actually great. Like it it feels fantastic. >> Well, the crazy thing also is this is the because I was also anonymous at the time and there were so many girls who would do that thing where they're like you don't know what it's like to be on a girl a girl on the internet. It's and it's like actually no, I do know. I've had I've had more interaction with people in one day while pretending to be a girl than you've ever had engagements ever before on this site. Like I have I have a pretty good idea of what it's like. But you also can just be anonymous. Like there's no reason that you have to be a girl on the internet. >> And if they always get very mad when you

57:52 point this out because you're basically saying like you want the upsides without the downsides and that's not allowed. And they just want they they just want the upsides. >> Yeah. [snorts] >> Right. Yeah, like I want the good things that happen when I have a female profile picture, but I don't like the way that you don't take me seriously and that you uh are hostile to me for XYZ reasons or I don't even think they they care that much about the being taken seriously part if we're being honest. I don't think that actors for them. >> I don't think they do. I think in a lot of ways they don't. But like I think that I don't know like then but then they say it so why do they say it? There's a specific type of girl that will complain about it, but the majority of them are sort of instrumental about it and they're just like, "Yeah, this is fine. This is how it is."

58:37 >> Yeah, >> we had years and years and years all these graphics cards, man. We have transistors that are like one atom away from each other. We can do all this weird ray tracing and particle physics and [laughter] and it's all towards the end of like rendering grains of sand. And only now are we realizing like wait these GPUs we can actually use them to serve like super intelligence also. They're like oh that's a way better that's a way better use >> way better use then >> but [laughter] like all of the technological development that we put into GPUs up until this last point was towards the end of rendering video games. Like that's totally insane. [laughter] I mean, I guess we're going to have to update the uh we're going to have to update the cycle. And it's not just uh for stuffing uh stuffing fried meat down

59:23 uh down throats, and it'll be for uh creating cuttingedge video cards to make simulated transforming guns that turn into alien robots [snorts] with the reload animations, too. I don't know. I was thinking about this recently because I recently just bought a ton of GPUs and I was like, "Wow, it's really good that these video game things randomly work as well as they do for like uh you know, matrix multiplications." [laughter] And then I I was thinking more and more about like how this came to be and I realized like we either really lucked out or we we are just uh we're being trolled in some divine way by God,

1:00:08 right? Or it's I mean I guess you know the the extremely boring answer is that like no actually it turns out that matrix multiplication is like kind of a fundamental force of the universe. Like I don't know like if you ever try to come up with something that's funny like you read a statement and then like in your head you turn it around and you make it into like the backwards version of the statement or you make it into the opposite version of the statement and they all like flash through your head in an instant and you're like oh that one was funny and then you like say the funny one like and it's because it's like your brain is just instinctively doing matrix multiplications and transforms on the original language. It's like got some kind of it's got some kind of like representation and then you're doing like a transform on the

1:00:53 representation. >> Yeah, there definitely is like an algorithmic function when you're writing anything. When you're writing a hook, it's literally a predetermined set of possibilities that you run through and then you have like a predetermined set of words that you use as your impact words. I've as I've as I've written more I've become more and more cognizant of like how easily I could be replaced by unintelligently trained uh matrix multiplier. Well, part of it yeah but part part of it absolutely but that's that's like it goes back to what we were saying earlier and I don't know if the the earlier bits going to stay in but like part of what we do is very similar to emitting tok the way LLM emit tokens like part of what we do when we talk but that's not all of what we do like we also like we also filter it which

1:01:40 fundamental reasoning at times, but for most people at most times, probably not. >> Yeah. Well, that's >> I'm mostly just we're podcasting. I'm here to emit tokens, bro. I'm not here to [laughter] >> I'm not here to do recursive reasoning. >> I'm here to emit tokens and chew bubble gum and I'm all out of gum. [laughter] >> You see, that [ __ ] is that is that's humor. That's funny. And that is pure like matrix multiplication. I'm like, "Oh, look. I have a library of quotes of like, oh, do two things and substitute out the one thing. [snorts] >> How many people took linear algebra? >> How common of a course is this? >> Not very. >> Pretty common. >> Oh, okay. >> So, the problem is that SA might

1:02:27 actually be so business major pill that when we say linear algebra, he's thinking like y= mx plus b and [laughter] basic. >> Jesus. That would be epic though. I think that'd be so gig of me. >> I don't know what the linear part means. But I mean, [ __ ] Everybody took algebra. What are you talking about, Lucas? [laughter] >> Because I remember it was like half of the engineering majors didn't have to take linear algebra for some reason. Uh if you were in E, you did. Uh, I don't definitely didn't have to do it for any of the business stuff, but >> I didn't have to do it for econ, but I ended up doing it anyway. >> I had to do it for econ. No. >> Okay. I I might have

1:03:13 >> I'm going to be honest, all that stuff went in and out. Like the only thing schooling taught me was like how to memorize things for three periods, three-month periods of time. That's it. That's entirely what I learned. I I'm sure I could pick it up again like relatively quickly because what what would happen is like you would pick it up and then forget and then like stop using it. It's it's a very weird system. Um you would you would relearn it. Schooling modern schooling is such a weird system. Dude, did you see that result that like Mississippi now has the best uh demographics adjusted educational program in the country? Pretty crazy. No. >> Is it even Is it even now? Oh, I thought they always had a pretty good demographic adjusted uh program. It's just that nobody ever shows the demographic adjusted numbers. >> No, I think they were terrible.

1:03:59 >> Yeah, >> they were really >> Yeah, cuz what happened was that they uh like all of the all of the like northern schools went and like they were like, "Oh, no. Phonics is nonsense." And like they they stopped teaching kids how to read because that's the only way to close like >> we should try we should try phrasing it as uh this was the only way to equalize like the high and low outcomes. Uh it's like they're trying they're trying basically to just apply like a uh soft maxing function across all distributions of tests to make sure that they're all [laughter] >> it's all the same. I think what happened is like some kids just couldn't some kids just do couldn't do phonics and so then they just like don't teach it to anyone >> like so no one learns like if if if all

1:04:44 the kids aren't going to learn it no one's going to learn it. I think what they did was they said they I mean the allegedly and I don't know how true this is but they said that actually I think this is true but like they said oh the best readers like learn phonics and then they do whole word reading and then they just see the words and they're like well we'll just teach everybody to be like the best readers but that's not how they do it. That's like a level of mastery that like people don't get to. So they just like you see videos of people now they can't read >> like just videos of like read this text and people just cannot like if >> it's like it's like a 19year-old person like this isn't >> and they appear to be able to verbalize the fact that they can't read fairly well also like this isn't someone who's

1:05:29 so stupid that the grasp of words is beyond them. It's a person who >> maybe 20 years ago would have been literate by age five. [laughter] >> Yeah. Or led Yeah. Let's let's calm down with literate because literate kind of I think is is implies some things that that are not >> they would have been able to LAR literate right like none of us literate >> they would have been able to decode letters into words and then whether or not they were able to take meaning from those words that they were looking at totally different question but they definitely would have been able to do that 10 years ago and now they just can't and now they just like look at things and it's just a mystery which I guess you know yeah I mean, I look at many things and it's a mystery, but it does appear that the number of mysteries in the world is growing uh as we go down

1:06:16 the age cohort. I think uh >> I've always wondered what the actual forcing function is for making everybody uh like they're clearly normalizing stuff, but I didn't understand if it was like we're taking the pattern that the best use and then we're applying it to everyone and realizing that it is so ineffectual at teaching that everybody just goes to zero. or if it was something like they start grading based on uh like a teacher will get a better score if they have a more equal distribution in the class. >> Uh maybe they won't necessarily say that to them, right? But if you have a teacher who somehow gets all of their students like 98% and you have a teacher

1:07:01 who gets half of them 100 and half of them 50%. And the second teacher gets reprimanded because you failed to teach half your class. And the first one is heralded as some sort of academic genius. Then it appears that what everyone would be incentivized to do is just say, "Yeah, all of our exams are like horseshit easy. You can just write whatever you want. I'll give you a 100." Right? Yeah. And I mean that's kind of what happened with Harvard, too. >> So that's why that's why I think that might have happened with everything because if it can happen to Harvard, presumably it can happen to an elementary school, right? Like the average grade coming out of Harvard now, the average GPA is a minus. So, >> I mean, you would expect I Yeah, I mean, it's it's an interesting question because I guess it's just they're so fragile if they couldn't take it. They

1:07:47 couldn't take it any other way. >> I don't even think it's that. I think when you're paying $80,000 a year for this product, it's like the the product is the credential. The product is not the learning. Like we're we're post the the idea that college like teaches you thing. You can tell this is true because like for example like Lucas, how many people in SF do we know who went to like you Mitch? Like you Mitch is like the top breeder of talent in SF? It's insane. It's literally everyone we know. >> Um >> yeah, I I think I think there is this view in which like there's no longer a pretension that you're purchasing education. There is an understanding that you're purchasing a credential and like the credential has this price tag effectively. Yeah. >> And so you can't give people a bad grade

1:08:32 if you're making them pay that price tag. You just it's not feasible. >> But wouldn't you wouldn't you think and and wouldn't maybe it's maybe it's lack of confidence because I would think that like okay >> no >> no no you wouldn't. But wouldn't you think that like like you could you could discount it. You're like okay Harvard has these tremendous standards for you know in theory these tremendous standards for for getting in in the first place and then all your grade means where do you rank within the people who are in Harvard? And then if you look at it, you're like, "Okay, everybody at this second school are people who couldn't get into Harvard in the first place." So if I come out with a B average or a C average, then that still is above the ranking of this other school. Like so then the question is why do they grade inflate in that way?

1:09:17 Like it just doesn't seem to make sense to me. But the thing is whenever you see something that doesn't make sense, it just means somebody is optimizing for something different than you think they're >> optimizing. you want to be able to have your kids say, "I got I got straight A's going to school, like this is my GPA." And so it's like every school has an incentive to optimize their own GPA. And so I I think when schools now do like, "Hey, we're not optimizing GPA." They have to also do a whole public push of like, "Hey, by the way, we're not like totally laring our GPA." Because otherwise people be like, "Why why would I like, oh, what the [ __ ] Like half your kids have like B's." >> Yeah. Yeah, like why would I hire any of these kids? Cuz in a great inflated world, you can't tell like a kid would who has a B is like a like genuinely like >> I mean that it is it is also like a hiring thing, right? Like if you're

1:10:03 going for your internship or your first job out of college >> and you know >> you have no credential, nothing. Yeah. It's like what is your >> Well, the average employer doesn't have a GPA normalized spreadsheet showing them that it's like okay an A from UC Berkeley is equal to like a B from Harvard or something, right? They just say, "Okay, well, this guy has a 2.0 and this guy has a 4.0, so the the this is a better number. I go with the be better number guy." >> It just seems like it seems like this is a solvable problem. Like I don't know in the market, right? You could you could normalize the grades that way. You're like, "Okay, this is the quality of the incoming class. This is what a a grade is an implicit class rank and then this is the implicit class rank and how it

1:10:48 translates across these things." But the answer is of course that no one is really doing that because no one thinks any of these things is real in a in a certain sense and it's all laring in a lot of senses because there's so many thumbs on the scale, right? >> Well, I mean also the idea of trying to fix anything with a university problem. Go for it. I I think also the other thing with university is like what was university you know 50 years ago and it was like okay you're you're going to get like a classical education you know you're going to learn classical texts and and that's what it can be if you have you know whatever 10% 5% of your population is going if it gets to the point where it's like oh if you don't have a degree you're an idiot you're fundamentally teaching a very different thing right yeah >> like we 40% of of society did not become

1:11:34 130 IQ definitionally obviously but you know, in a more colloquial sense, like not everyone became so much smarter in 60 years. And and even even um like this is one of the topics that of some of the the quote unquote like libs will touch like the Brian Kaplins of the world will be like, "Oh, education is like a myth." Like education is one of the big myths of the world. Um this is this is one of the very few things that they will kind of touch and like kind of admit that it's it's it's mostly you know it's more nature than it is nurture really. Well, Kaplan is very specifically very much like anti-educa anti not I don't want to say anti-education but he's anti the idea that education is doing anything other than signaling and credentiing like he's very against it but like

1:12:20 everybody knows it because okay here's the classic example that you can simply prove this is right is they don't check ID at law school to get into the lectures but if you go to a bar prep class they will very much check IDs and make sure you are registered for and paying for the bar prep class. So the difference is one is about education and the other is about the credential and the ones that production. >> I will say I will say a lot of the classes uh so my engineering classes this was never an issue because if you if you miss your engineering classes uh it's like it will probably just be reflected in the grades or you will flunk out. Uh, but the business classes that I had, they actually did check,

1:13:06 they would have a little clicker signin thing that you had to do and download an app because they realized that you you could literally just never go to a business class and then you can still pass, right? And you you might not even have to study. You can just go to the exams and it's like if you're smart enough, you can kind of common sense your way through. So everybody stopped going. But then a really funny thing happened where I So they roll out all these clicker programs and resultantly every intrepid young businessman decides that they will start a service where they go around to all of the people in their dorm room and they say I will collect all of your your phones and your clicker and I will go to that because they had to be in the room because they had a number that you had to put in or something like that and they will say like I if you give me $5 today I will go and do it for you. So now this kid is

1:13:51 bankrolling hundreds of dollars a week off of collecting everyone's phones and waking up at 8 in the morning. >> Really? He should be getting extra credit for business class. >> Yeah, he should get extra credit. That's a that's a [laughter] that's a flying colors in my business class, dude. What do you mean? Like abusing the government like Yeah, dude. That's like 101. That's the way you >> You have figured out a market opportunity. You are you are the top business graduate in our in in that year. Yeah, >> but I think this was a program that lasted maybe uh like it was I don't even think it was a full year. I think it was like a semester or something. Uh >> because it's just immediately apparent how silly it is, right? If you're a professor and you see these kids with like 80 phones in their backpack come in and stand outside your doorway

1:14:36 [laughter] doing this for like 30 minutes, like you I would actually feel worse than if nobody showed up to my lecture. Like it's actually it's actually much much worse to watch this kid type in the numbers than it would be to just give an entire lecture to only zero people >> because I think that that but I think that's the that's the key of why they did it in the first place. Right. Why they did it in the first place was because it would look bad if the professors lecturing to an empty lecture hall if it >> I'm gonna go I'm gonna raise you I'm gonna raise you on the uh the black pill and the uselessness of this all. I'm gonna say that the reason they did it is because the professor felt stupid. >> I bet the professors were like, um, nobody's nobody's caring about learn, but like the professor just feels like an idiot talking to no one. It takes a

1:15:23 very special person to be able to sit here alone talking [laughter] no one, right? >> I mean, even takes a lot of time. We can't do it. There's two other we each of us has to have other people on the call to be able to do. >> Solo podcasting is crazy. Solo podcasting is insane, dude. >> I think solo podcasting and Sale and I have discussed this many times before, but I think solo podcasting has the highest likelihood of developing mental illness at any any profession. I think it is the most mental profession to itself. It's it's a completely depical. >> I'm making a reference. Do you know do you know that reference at all? Like you ever see like the super clips of, speaking of solo podcasters, of Candace Owens mispronouncing words over and over

1:16:10 and over again. Like she she says debacle wrong every single time she says it. >> That's so funny. Anytime I see these pundit people in a clip, I just scroll past it because I feel like at this point in my tenure as a denisin of online nonsense communities, I sort of know all of the different uh >> you know like Candace Owens, Matt Walsh, etc. They're not like bleeding edge of the discourse enough that I'm going to click on the Matt Walsh video and I'm going to hear something that I haven't heard a 100 million times before, right? Like I've already ingested every take that Matt Walsh can generate within the bounds of his sponsors, right? He may think very interesting things privately, but >> he will never be able to say them on a recorded setting, right? So, I just feel safe to scroll past them. So, Candace

1:16:55 Owens could be the funniest, most insightful person in the universe, but I just assume >> Oh, no, no. She's She might be the funniest person in the universe, but she's not insightful. But that's the joke is like I think that you you watch her for the if you were to watch these videos, you would watch them for the unintentional comedy. >> I have a friend whose wife randomly became mega obsessed with Candace. And this is like this is actually he's a very very well-off finance bro who's married to an Asian woman and his Asian wife just became obsessed with Candace Owens and just watches all the Candace and like this was uh this happened back when Candace was on her thing where her only goal in life was to prove that uh Mcronone married a transgender man. [laughter] >> Yes. And so it it was just so because

1:17:42 you have you have like this totally [ __ ] normal and well-off finance guy and he marries a very status conscious and also very normal presenting Asian wife, right? But then you bring this Asian wife anywhere and she can't [ __ ] shut up about how the prime minister of France married a transsexual [snorts] and nobody and nobody's discussing this and we're all like I I know we [laughter] want to keep it that way. Wow. Gee, I wonder I wonder what other things nobody discusses and why nobody discusses those things [laughter] and you're just like and I think it was one of those you told me these were these were your base friends. >> You you said they were based but as soon as I went on my 45minute tirade about

1:18:27 the secret penis of Mcronone's wife, all of them just sort of started leaving the table and making excuses to exit. [laughter] Well, this is the like if you whatever world view you have, be prepared for it to be reflected back at you with like a 20 a more extreme and 20 IQ point lower version of it from your wife is [laughter] like like the statement about being like the danger of being right-wing and like red pilling your wife. It is it is the radical wife meme is something that I've increasingly because a lot of the guys that I knew that were married uh it went one of two ways. Either they have a bad marriage and the wife is still like super litarted uh and it it's just like

1:19:12 horrifying or they have a good or functional marriage and their wife just gradually approaches the guy on everything. But then because it's a girl and girls can get away with saying so much nonsense in public and once like girls just don't know this, right? Girls all kind of they're they're within a very normalized band of nonsense. But when a girl realizes how much nonsense she can get away with saying, she just goes to levels that it's like you would be described as some sort of a Hitler acolyte if you would say 10% of what these random women say. And everyone's like, "Oh, haha, she's like off the cob, bro. What a wacky girl. [laughter] >> It's very very true.

1:19:58 >> So, I've been watching all of these like uh you know, everyone is talking about how the women have been radicalized, right? One of the one of the recent examples I guess is there's that mom who three of her kids to then I guess they still have to have a court hearing over this. So, maybe she didn't but as far as I know she was literally recorded saying, "Yeah, I my kids." And a lot of women are just coming out and saying like, "Yeah, she didn't do it." I can tell because she's like, "Uh, Leo." >> She's a Leo. Leos don't kill their cubs. >> And he looks he looks mean and she looks like she's nice. So, >> okay. They have a point on the physomy analysis. Okay. Let's not let's not throw out the baby with the Let's not choke the baby with the bath water here. [laughter] Okay.

1:20:43 >> Let's not drown the baby. Everyone has been talking about how women have been radicalized in response to this because now all of the women are coming out to defend the mom just on the basis of oh she's also a woman and we're we're women, right? >> Uh but that's not even that's like such a minor radicalization. Like women lie to defend their friends all the time. This isn't even radicalized. This is just like men do this even right like this is a normal behavior. People lie to defend their friends all the time. actual radicalization is talking about Mcronone's secret penis all the time. Like that's actual radicalization. >> I don't know. I I I don't know. I see this as I see this as like I Okay, so maybe I'm being apocalyptic here, but like I see this as like women are not coming back from this one. Like it's

1:21:28 over for women after this one. Dude, every time every time there's a big meme on the internet where women are like saying some nonsense, all of the alpha male red pill accounts are like, "The women will never recover from this one. You're going to be buying women for pennies on the dollar after [laughter] this one. The female value has gone to zero. >> It's going to zero." >> And it just never matters. It never matters because everyone like there's always a guy willing to pay $1 for $1 worth of woman. >> [laughter] >> Bro, he's willing to pay $1 for like zero worth like zero quantity for like the conception of a woman existing and acknowledging his presence. The worst of the worst kind of uh internet commentary

1:22:13 on this stuff is the people who go like well of course women are like that nowadays. Look at how men are. Men men lead and women follow. [laughter] >> Oh god. >> It's just so do you know that one I tweeted the other I was like, "Bro, your wife's tweet just made me want to." [laughter] >> There's been so many We have all of these things retained as like memes in our brain, but we don't know what they mean anymore. We have very loose tagging and categorization of it all. We're like, "Yeah, like isoflavones, phytoestrogens, that's what the like holistic people said. I remember when I had my holistic phase, I said those words." Uh, [laughter] >> well, listen, do you need to remember it? It's like, "All right, soy is

1:22:58 estrogenic, so just don't like don't take it anymore and then just don't worry about the >> It's not estrogenic. It's I am pretty sure I'm remembering this. It's that it binds to the estrogen receptor in a way that blocks estrogen in a way that causes not necessarily just estrogenic effects, but also random inhuman effects >> that turn you [clears throat] into like a weird alien person." Like, I thought that was the issue is that a phytoestrogen is not a real estrogen. So, you're not It's not even like you're transing yourself. You're turning yourself into like a deer or like an alien or some other thing [laughter] that doesn't exist. >> I don't think I've ever seen any Well, I Okay, so you're saying this explains furries. Too much soy will turn you into a deer. >> There's a lot of ways that you can

1:23:44 effectively turn yourself into not a human. >> Okay, I buy it. Finasteride probably too, actually. I want to say also going back to the thing where the women are all like the guy is evil and mean because of his face and also his astrological sign. >> He's a Gemini, but I'm looking at the I'm looking at the quote. Leos don't kill. Geminis do. Leos don't kill their cubs. Nope. Not. >> What is the theme of our episode again? >> It's so epic. So, what do what do Yeah. The bliss of the >> This is confirmation bias, right? >> It was a great episode title because I knew no matter what we talked about, we would hit it, right? So, it's great we kicked off. >> Well, also our entire podcast is confirmation biasing ourselves. >> Like, we could have we could have

1:24:30 actually called our podcast confirmation bias instead of plausibly deniable. And confirmation bias might have actually been a better title. >> [ __ ] >> I'm going to go reserve that. >> Do we rebrand right? >> We have to cut this part out or somebody's going to take that podcast. Somebody's going to take that. >> It comes out later. We'll we'll we'll figure it out by then if we want to hit a quick rebrand or not. >> It's actually confirmation bias is really good unironically. >> Yeah, >> I like I like plausibly deniable, but confirmation bias is like >> confirmation bias rolls off the tongue in a way that plausibly deniable didn't does not, which is the unfortunate reality of plausible deniability is like it it's it's one or two syllables too long. You need a couple less syllables

1:25:16 in there. >> It has grown on me though. >> It's really grown on me. But holy [ __ ] confirmation bias goes hard. >> Confirmation bias goes turbo [laughter] cuz it's like no one can complain about your content anymore. >> Yes. [laughter] Like all you guys do is agree with each other. It's like [laughter] it's like have you tried reading the [ __ ] words? Have you tried reading them, dude? >> We've done it. That's That's Yeah, that's irony. The ultimate in irony poisoning, right? Where it's like you're so ironic that you can't ever be disagreed with because it's just No, bro. Look, it's confirmation bias. We know >> everyone else is everyone else is doing it. Okay. I feel like I should be able

1:26:01 to enjoy some comfort. Like every other category of people in society is doing turbo insane confirmation bias. Okay. I feel like I should be able to do it as well. Obviously, all of these women are confirmation biasing themselves into believing that this woman could like I don't even need to say that this is how it is being represented, right? But the women believe women cannot be guilty, so they just say he must have done it and she's innocent. >> I don't think literally >> I don't think that's it. I think No, I think that what it is is okay. So, it's how women use language, right? How women use language is not like if a man says something it's like if a man says a it's because he wants you to believe a because he thinks that like a will work

1:26:46 well for him or like a is the truth and this is something he wants to convey to you. But if a woman says something a woman says something with the idea in her head that the thing she's saying will induce something in your head and then her goal is to induce the thing in your head. And so women are like, "Oh, no, she didn't kill the kids." Because the thing she's actually trying to say is it's perfectly okay that she killed the kids. And so the way that she gets you to think that it's okay of what she did is by saying she didn't kill them. But that's why I think the women thing, that's that's what I think about the about this thing that like like and this is this is I feel like this is hard to talk about because of uh because we're trying to we're trying not to get completely censored here, but um and I

1:27:31 don't know how well we're going to succeed at that, but I I feel I I really do believe that like women know that this woman did it. And like her defense isn't even I didn't do it. Her defense is like I have postpartum psychosis, right? Have you seen this? That like this is her defense is like no, I did it. But I wasn't in my right mind and it should be okay that I did it. And like women are like, "No, she didn't do it because it's like they don't >> Yeah. [snorts] >> Isn't this just like every defense now? [laughter] >> Every time anyone does anything, they're like, "Ah, [ __ ] bro. I was off one, man. I was off a bean. My bad. [laughter] >> My bad. >> Off a bean is so funny." [laughter] And it's al it's also just clearly the wrong

1:28:17 response to any of this, right? >> Yeah. >> Like if someone says, "Oh, they were crazy. We're letting we're letting them off because they were crazy." It's like, "No, you should like quadruple down because they're crazy." If someone says, "I'm so crazy that I randomly kill all of my children." It's not like, "Oh, case dismissed." It's like, "Dude, you're going to mega jail. [laughter] >> You're going you're going to like a worse version of jail, bro. I I mean, yeah, look, you're right. I mean, it's, you know, there's that classic Nick Lan tweet of like like the the idea that uh I think he said like the idea that mentalation is a defense rather than an aggravating factor in a crime is enough to condemn an entire legal philosophy. >> Yes. [laughter]

1:29:03 >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's just it just doesn't make any sense. Flatten. >> That makes no sense. Yeah. It makes no sense. like a a friend a friend showed me the absolute most insane case I've ever seen and it's just it was this goes back to like I don't even I didn't get to the end of it so I didn't uh so I don't know how it got disposed of. I think the guy got executed but I'm not sure. Um guy kills somebody. Guy kills somebody and then like the police go to capture him and then he kills the cop when he's like the the policeman is like waiting. the cop is like waiting in his living room with like his mother and then he kills the cop and then he realizes when he's caught that he goes to shoot himself and he fails to he fails to um self-terminate when he when he attempts to but it damages his brain

1:29:48 in such a way that he's like left as mentally incapable. And so now he can't stand [laughter] trial because he can't assist in his own defense, but he's not being defended from the fact that he's mentally incapable. But he can only he can't help in his own defense. And the Supreme Court ruled that you have to be able to help in your own defense to be put on trial. But you can only be held if you're temporarily incapacitated from helping in your own defense. But it's a permanent state. So you're left with this like catch 22 where there's like nothing in the legal system that you could do about this guy, >> but they executed him. So >> what [laughter] that's the craziest that's ending Okay.

1:30:34 Yeah. Yeah. That's what I was going to say because I you were telling me about all of this and I thought you were going to end it with some like nonsense story like this person now requires a $7 million annual life support budget and it's all supported by Virginia taxpayers or something like [laughter] that. And then you're like, "No, no, no. They just killed him. >> Yeah, >> that sounds like a that sounds like a country, bro. Like that sounds like a real like that's a nation state type activity there." >> Yeah, absolutely. >> I haven't seen that from us in quite a while. >> Yeah. I was going to say this thing you were like the Supreme Court ruled this and I was like, "Oh, it's just mega over, [laughter] bro." >> Yeah. No, because it was like they did establish but that's the thing is like they established all these rulings were there in the '9s and like if you

1:31:20 followed the law according to the way everybody had interpreted it. Um you couldn't do anything about the guy. The guy just found a way found a loophole you know give yourself brain dam I mean you know you have to live brain damage for the rest of your life but like give yourself brain damage so that way you cannot help in your own defense and then you could just get away with whatever crimes you committed before that. going to say about the guy who was trying to self- terminate uh and he failed. Do you know how common this is? Like do you understand how common it is to attempt to own life with and fail? This is one of those like goofy things to bring up to liberals all the time because they all have this idea that you can like point at somebody and you're like ah like the criminal I'm I'm going to caps out. I would and they think that this is

1:32:06 possible. But a person who is sitting there attempting to take their own life with a that they're lining up with a mirror pointed at their own head, they have something like a 50% chance of succeeding. >> Wow. I didn't realize it was that low. >> It's insane. >> I have a vision that that whole that whole bit is going to have to be cut right >> for like >> probably. But I if it if it doesn't have to be cut the message >> the message the message of that bit is this. You should never yourself. You you should live on and even if you are thinking about trying yourself, you'll probably [ __ ] it up and you'll be trapped as >> which is [laughter] so much worse. >> It's even worse. >> So much worse than you think it's bad now. Imagine if you were now and you had all the same [laughter] >> all the same problems, but yeah. Well, I

1:32:52 don't know. Maybe maybe your problems are maybe your maybe my problems would be better if I were I don't know. >> Yeah. >> Well, don't seem to have the same problems. >> No, no. We have to I mean we're we're taking like we're not actually trying to do a philosophical. We have to take the stance that it's better to not yourself because that's what saves the channel. So even if you think that it might secretly be better if they make them, you can't say it here. >> Okay. >> So please roll it back. [laughter] >> Okay. >> Disavow. >> Disavow. We need viewers, bro. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> This is the funniest thing. My mom has an account. She had an account that she used. Zero followers. zero following. Literally just a news browsing account that she used to keep tabs on like me,

1:33:38 some of her friends, some news events, and >> keeping tabs on my libtard bomb friends and also my schizophrenics. [laughter] >> Well, at some point my mom's news account got banned. >> Yeah. >> For suspected automation. >> They did that with they did that to me on Instagram. I had an account that that I did nothing. I I never posted a single picture and I just I I browse the timeline. I I I didn't even really browse. I actually I used it to DM with people that I would meet that don't have Twitter accounts and that's basically the only use I I had of it. And I wasn't like spamming out. I like had like actual conversations with like five people. So for my mom, what happened with her is they banned the account under these bot

1:34:24 suspicions or whatever, but then they sent her an email saying you can appeal this to and there's just no way to appeal actually. Uh but it also said and you're not allowed to make a new account. >> So she she's trapped and because she's a she's a law-abiding woman, right? She sees this thing. It's an email from the official platform saying you can't get back in unless you appeal. So, she's like clicking all around, clicking all the links on the [ __ ] email to try and find one that might be an appeal. And eventually she realizes there's none. And then it also says you can't make a new account. So, she's like, Lucas, what do I do? Uh, and I'm like, I would just make a new account. And she's [laughter] like, well, it says that I can't. And I'm like, well, I don't I just don't think they they care that much because it's like it was a zero

1:35:10 like you you never posted. Like, I just don't think they care. I think you can just make a new account. She's also >> explicitly says not to make a new account. And I'm like, well, >> what are they going to do? Ban you? [laughter] >> Yeah, they'll just ban you again. That's that's they already they already did it. They escalated to Back in the old days, they had a they had a thing where um if you had under 10,000 followers and they somebody somehow you got flagged to get banned, it was there was like no internal controls on it and it was like, "Okay, you're banned." And so so they what what I knew somebody who who kept remaking accounts and every time she would get close to 10,000 somebody was watching and would ban right when she got close. Every single time like

1:35:56 multiple times [laughter] like back >> there were so many there were so many just like ridiculous internal uh >> I don't know Twitter back in the day was just like the ultimate Discord Jany hell. >> Yeah. Like the moderators on Twitter were going so haywire. It was totally absurd. >> Yeah. >> What an epic gig, dude. These people all made like easily 200,000 bucks a year in like 2012 for like banning and unbanning people at their own [laughter] will, bro. Just like a guy who came rush you would feel. >> You're like, "Wow, look at this guy." It's like not only they maybe they didn't even insult me, but they liked a comment insulting me. Banable offense by me, bro. [laughter] Banable. That sounds bannable.

1:36:42 >> It's super awesome. >> I know somebody who got I know somebody who got banned for joining a space and listening back in the old day that was a Nick Fuente space. >> Oh, yeah. If you joined the Nick Fuentes space, everyone in it just got instak-illed, I think. >> Yeah. >> That made me extremely schizophrenic on this platform for a very long time. >> I didn't join a space for years after that because of that. It's just so awesome how uh it's such an epic circular system and you can't even like like the Janney is the giga chat in this scenario because like the the 4chan meme was always like oh they do it for free like janies are turbo losers but it's like no they're getting paid a salary and on top of that they're like accepting bribes from [laughter] people like the the Twitter jennies were the gigachads that was like the top jenny

1:37:28 job you could ever get for sure just one of the greatest >> you do [laughter] Should we just apply a random support job >> at SpaceX? Dude, [laughter] you're like a JD. Hold on, hear me out. Okay, you were a Janie in 2012 just like banning people you hated. You got Twitter stock. You converted into X stock. You now own a piece of SpaceX AI. Just the biggest gigachad to ever do. >> Oh my god. >> You're the greatest to ever do it, bro. What was your path? What was your family's path to generational wealth? Well, uh, and it starts with, I really didn't want people saying certain things on Twitter.

1:38:14 I didn't want anyone to be able to disagree with me on Twitter. [laughter] This got me rich. This is like the equivalent of like boomers talking about how like like Larry King, you know the story of like Larry King, he like went in one day and he was like the janitor at like a radio station and then like one day like the radio host didn't show up and it's like they put him on the mic and then he was on on the air every day until he died. Like literally every day like the story is insane. It's like the most insane boomer story. And I'm assuming >> the reason this is why boomers all have their weird [ __ ] where they're like >> just walk up to her and shake her hand. Like they all think that it works because it actually did work at one point. >> That was the unpatched method in 1.0

1:38:59 back back in [laughter] like 1.0, bro. >> But now >> I tend to think that it's a lie, though. I tend to think that like that's not actually like Larry King like his family knew somebody and he was set up with that job and then like that's the story he tells for public consumption. I tend to believe that. I don't know. >> It might also be a lie, but there's like a seed of truth in it maybe, right? Like for example, like like um my dad studied econ and then he was like a fly fishing guide and then one time like a random like on this during the summers he was like a fly fishing guide and then one time he ended up guiding for a guy who like later referred him for a position and like he was qualified for it but like he also just got lucky and like talked to the guy right so it I think it's like there's a seed of truth to it

1:39:44 but that's I always laugh like the Bill Aman [laughter] you May I meet you? >> He billionairely He billionaire whispered into [laughter] you. May I meet you? I I mean I feel like that's ridiculous. Like like like I I don't even know what a woman's reaction to that is supposed to be. If you're standing in front of her and you're like, "May I meet you?" She'll be like, "What are you talking about? You're standing in front of me. We've already met." I think I think the thing is if you're if you're at a certain age or above it, you can say that and they'll just be like maybe it's some weird [ __ ] like gentleman [ __ ] like maybe this is [laughter] like when they hold doors for you or something. But if you

1:40:29 do this as a 19-year-old man, you walk up to her and say, "May I meet you?" It is just the pinnacle of all turbo autism. So, [laughter] it is, and again, this is fitting in with the this is fitting in with the title of the episode, but it's this confirmation bias thing where if you're a boomer saying this, it will work, but only because you're a boomer. So, you're like, "My advice worked, but it only works because you're old, right?" Like, if a younger person were to try doing this, it would instantly detonate their entire social life. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Just so amazing. What a gig chat, dude. I think it also works because it's like one of those things where it's so out there. It's like like why is he doing this? He's supremely stupidly confident. Like okay, he must >> so confident he thinks he can talk to me like some sort of medieval jester,

1:41:15 right? [laughter] >> Ultimate gesture vaccine dude. [laughter] >> He's using such bad game that it has to be intentional. Therefore, he is so >> I feel like this works. This is not >> No, this was a strategy for a long time. Remember it was the uh it's Oh, he's showing how he's showing how easy it is for him. Like he doesn't care about having the android. He doesn't care about like wearing good clothes. He doesn't care about flexing the XYZ things. That means he must be really cool. >> Yeah. >> Well, but then everyone everyone started doing the anti-game to that level. So it like it kind of doesn't really work anymore. >> Girls did the same thing, right? girls

1:42:00 were all like, "Well, if I act like a huge [ __ ] that means that I'm desirable because otherwise no one else would put up with this." >> But then everyone just started acting like huge [ __ ] >> And now it's it's not like, "Oh, I think you're valuable because you're a huge bitch." It's like, well, they're stalled doing it. [laughter] >> I think Yeah, but I was going to say girls, I think, just haven't stopped. Girls just did this and they got stuck in this equilibrium now. I might be wrong, but I feel like they've like they've started shifting back and they're no longer doing the thing where they're trying to signal how hot they are by being a huge [ __ ] >> I feel like that's started to reverse. I might be wrong. >> It's society is no longer monolithic enough that everyone is like on the same wave of fashion. And so now you still have like the the Asian girls in San Francisco still do the thing where like

1:42:46 they call themselves a hot girl all the time, but everyone in New York stopped doing this like two or three years ago kind of. The hot girl thing is really bad. I think that's one of the worst trends of all time where you're going around affirming autistically that you are a hot girl. >> So weird. >> I think it's equally as bad as if I were to walk up to you and say like, "Hi, like I'm trustworthy Lucas." And shake your hand. [laughter] You would just instantly be like, "This guy's going to mega [ __ ] me." Right. >> I'm a pretty big believer that we're just going to get some we're going to get some crazy uh hair technology very soon. The demand just seems to be there. It's definitely going to happen for real, bro. Like, we're we're genuinely going to be at the point of developing transdimensional hyperdrive starships

1:43:31 before we [ __ ] cure balding. It's just at this point, we have done every and you can tweet this out every week and I often do. >> Don't be never going to fix it. >> You can tweet this out. You can tweet this out every week and it will still go viral. And it's like, oh, like, so I guess we've developed the ability to transition a man into a woman, but regrowing two square centimeters of hair is too tough for the human race now, huh? And every guy is sitting there like, like like retweet [laughter] comment. Like, so true. >> So true, bro. [laughter] >> You could you could run back tweets nowadays in a way that you really could not before. Like before people would give you [ __ ] for running back tweets, but now there there's so much AI slop

1:44:17 that people were like, "Oh, that was a real tweet you wrote." >> People also don't remember it. You remember when you used to tweet something and there would be some guy that's like, "You stole this from this." And it would be some guy you've never seen before that had a tweet that was like semantically similar that he made eight years ago and you're like, I don't really know if you could say that this is steal. It's like the same subject that we're discussing, but I I wouldn't say that the commentary is the same. And now it's like you can tweet verbatim the same thing as you did one week ago and people will be like, "Dude, this is so funny. Nobody thinks like you do, man. Like nobody's ever had this thought before." And it's like, you're you had it you you was me. I had it one week ago. You and I I might have even stolen

1:45:02 it from someone else probably. like many thousands, millions of people have had this thought. [laughter] >> I don't know about that. But, you know, I mean, I think a lot of these thoughts are not are not that common. But then again, I look at I look at replies sometimes when I like somebody puts a tweet in a group chat and I'm like, "Oh, like I come up with like this like ah this epic reply and then I put it and I look that like the top 50 comments." I'm like, "All right, I haven't seen it yet." And then I read and the second you tweet out that reply and then you read down somebody said the same thing like three hours before. >> If you do it in the reply if you make the same reply as someone else that is the one where you will get the guy with 17 followers being like >> you stole his reply. >> Yeah. [laughter] I didn't steal it. I independently thought of the same thing.

1:45:49 I also do think it's really funny that people don't realize how uh >> like at a certain point when you're assembling certain types of discourse, there are only a handful of things that you can think about them, [laughter] right? Like if I'm trying to formulate a take, there's not an infinite number of takes. >> Yeah. >> It's like a number of takes actually quite it's quite limited. Yeah. There's not that many takes, dude. We're running out. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> The one thing that will get solved after balding is Twitter search. Just the most broken thing. It's better to search on Google and like put in your username at this point than to search on Twitter. >> It's better to ask Grock. It's better to ask Grock than to put the exact phrase. >> Grock turns around and Google searches. By the way, we've all been doing it. We've all

1:46:34 >> right after this brief intermission to say, "Hope our editor appreciated that." Now, back to our sponsor. [laughter] >> Editor's going to want to throw. It's just the most annoying episode. the most [laughter] annoying episode to edit ever. >> So, wait, you don't you don't do the editing anymore, do you, Lucas? >> No, we upgraded. It's ne it's never going back. This is a level of hydonic adjustment that's like impossible to go back. >> I could do it again, but it would be the most loweffort editing ever. I would be like, "Okay, chat GPT, like, uh, scroll through this." And if I ever said explicitly, uh, any slurs or I said, "Cut this." Or if I was just unfunny, you can cut that, too. leaving the parts where sail is unfunny. [laughter]

1:47:21 [laughter] I do think sometimes I love the editor. Sometimes the the choices are a little like sometimes there are things that are left in where I'm [laughter] like, yo, why did we leave that in? I haven't read any of them, but I'm like >> the the nice thing about not editing is I also don't watch it [laughter] like after we post the episode. Like someone could send it to me and they'd be like, "Dude, you this is crazy, bro. I can't believe you were willing to say this." And I was like, I wasn't really willing to say it, but you know, what's there to be done about it now? [laughter] Can't believe you were willing to say this publicly. Like, I would have I would have probably cut that one actually. [laughter] Well, that's I actually [clears throat] like on my pod we did a thing where we

1:48:09 had um we [clears throat] got little like dog training things like that clickers and we literally because you could see the click if you put the click in you could see it in Audacity when you're doing the editing like it makes a big spike. >> I should just like whack something on the >> desk start dog clicking the editor. That's so [ __ ] up. Well, the thing is I was doing the editing, so I was doing it for myself. >> Dog quicker training yourself. [laughter] >> There was a period where when SA was just being extremely difficult to schedule with and he was like just Lucas was being vindictive vindictive [laughter] and I never called you out on this because I realized that it would get worse if I called which is like obviously correct like obviously it would have gotten worse if I called it

1:48:54 out. But yeah, there was a period when Lucas was just doing like openly vindictive editing like [laughter] and it was not just like it was not just like like oh SA said something unfunny like leave that in or like oh SA stuttered leave that in. It was SA said something funny cut that cut that [laughter] out. >> Oh my god. Does this make the episode worse? Yes. >> I was like I don't care. Like I will sink it all. I will sink it all. And then it was like, huh, this is an interesting period where uh SA is clearly checking his emails and not listening to me whatsoever. And so he just goes like, um, yeah, I don't know, man. Um, yeah, like on a loop sounding like an absolute idiot. I'd better I better copy paste. Yeah, five minute section of that. What if we do a five

1:49:40 [laughter] minute section? >> Oh, yeah. That's real good content. That's real good content, man. [laughter] So, you realize in the future everyone's going to liveit reality, right? It's that's just going to be reality. It's like if you hate your [ __ ] husband or you hate your wife or something, that's just you can just make that your life now. >> You get the VR glasses and then you use them to make your wife like 50 lbs fatter even. It's like she's already she's already a big girl. But now, >> dude, you're not making her hotter. You're making her fatter because you hate her. [laughter] I feel like all we're doing is we're catching up to like the technology that's already built into Floyd's brains. >> Like they already do this with reality >> and all we're doing with that is like

1:50:26 you need look at the it's like the like the like the meme from uh the meme from Invincible. Look at what they need to mimic our power. And it's like like men have all sorts of like levers of technology. Women are just like, "Yeah, I just choose." >> We need like the $15,000 GPU that can do ray tracing and accurate particle rendering of sand. >> Uh just just to do the thing. I Okay, there was like no you're shorter than me. And it's like I'm literally 8 in taller than you. >> There was a girl that I dated uh I think Kofifi knows this one where when I was dating her, she was like, "You're well above six feet tall." And then when we broke up, I became five foot eight. It was like the [laughter] funniest thing in the universe. >> And like it's kind of

1:51:11 >> she would go around telling everybody this. Like she would be like, "My ex is like 6' 3" and then she instantly flips to or she would be like, "My boyfriend is like 6' 3" and then she flips to my ex is 5 foot8. What a loser. And then they're like, "Well, but didn't you say he was 6' 3" and then she didn't even say no, I lied. She just said, "No, I never said that. What are you talking about? >> [laughter] >> That's an interesting because that gets back to the thing I was I was trying to say earlier and you were disagreeing with me or you didn't buy it. But it's like no because her statement isn't about reality and it isn't about like the statement. It's just about this is calculated to have an emotional impact on you and that's why she says it. >> In my view, it's it's as much like for

1:51:56 her as it is for the other people. Like she's also telling herself she never said this and that Lucas is 5 foot8. >> No, but I mean her saying it in the first place, her saying it like when she said he's 6'2, that just means that doesn't mean >> that was also for her. That was also for her. Yeah, that's also like for her to self-believe. >> Okay. Yeah. >> I think a lot of it is like self selfdeceit. It's self, which is actually and I'm going to hit you with some crazy some crazy wife guy cope. Okay. Some [laughter] crazy SA wife guy in training. Okay. This is actually a good thing. Like it's good that women are these crazy coke machines. [laughter] >> Yeah. This is the bliss of confirmation bias. [laughter] >> Exactly. >> SA's basically accepted like, yeah, well, there's not really anything I can

1:52:41 do about it. So, I either have to say that it's good or be like a depressed mess forever. >> But of course, it's good that they're cope machines. I mean, like, like historically, the >> But of course, it must be good because that's how it is, right? Serious. The old God would never make it bad. Like you would never be here, man. I'm kind of the only way society functions. The only reason society functions is because women are cope machines. Because you see what the world is like way debunked on arrival and it literally doesn't function. [laughter] >> Now it doesn't obviously. Yeah. But what I'm saying, >> right, but if you're saying that this trait of them is what makes society function, it can't be true because they have they have always had the trait and society doesn't function now. Society used to function when a woman would get

1:53:26 married to an average guy and she would cope him into being amazing. And now women are exposed and they can like they have the exposure to literally every man on the planet because you know like every guy will try to [ __ ] her and now they don't have the ability to cope that their husband is amazing anymore. >> Well, this is debunked again also. If she was truly this amazing cope machine, she would just keep coping instead of You're basically saying that her ability to cope that her average husband is amazing is gone now. Yes. >> Right. Which I I agree. It is. It is. But if she was an amazing cope machine, it wouldn't be gone because she would just cope harder. >> No. No. But there are there are limits. There are limits to how how she what she can cope with. >> Well, in the past, you had to cope out of like 500 mates. You had to cope. Now you have to cope out of like five

1:54:11 billion, you know, mates basically. >> Yeah. It's a higher it's beyond beyond the coping ability. >> But my point is >> the real problem is always is always the Matty Glacias of the world, okay? Who enable the cope into like actual policy. Like the cope is quite sweet and endearing when it happens like within the vicinity of a safe controlled little environment. But when the cope starts happening within the vicinity of like policy like oh I don't I don't think we have to be mean to criminals because that's mean so we don't have to do that. That's when the cope starts getting civilizationally destructive. >> People have all people have all sort of accepted that podcast exist as a friendship simulator. It's so rare. And

1:54:57 when it does happen, it betrays an instant misunderstanding of the total medium. Right? When someone comments saying, "You really, your subjects this week were really not what I was looking for." It's like, "Dude, you don't understand why this podcast exists. You don't understand why anyone watches this podcast. [laughter] The subjects, bro." Like, it's like, "Next week, I was hoping that you would hit hit on [snorts] the AI and recursive self-improvement loops harder." I really like. Did you see the recent note about Anthropic and their revenue? Like you don't you don't There's three people that want to hear me say that. There's three of them. >> It's It's two of you. >> Yeah. >> Oh, wait. Are you >> Let me do a Let me do a parasocial bit. Let me do a parasocial bit. So, I was

1:55:42 listening to your episode with the Zcash guy, right? >> [snorts] >> And I was like, you were talking about you were talking about how like certain Ethereum like Ethereum like certain addresses just get cut out and they're permanently unspendable. Do you remember this? >> Okay. So, somebody in like the blogosphere, this guy, this guy this blog like Jim, he uh he actually came up with a name for this and during the episode was driving me crazy. It's like, "Oh, just say the name." Like the name he called it the blood diamonds attack. The idea was that you you delegitimate this entire like alternate stream of funding. >> Yeah. But like the idea is that like it's it's oh they're blood diamonds so you can't trade in blood diamonds and then like so therefore you can't prove the providence of it. So like it's a

1:56:28 it's a it's an actual thing that's been done in the past. So this is >> for those for those who are unaware of what we're discussing here. There is a thing in crypto where there's a certain tumbler that people use to wash their money basically so that you can't tell where it's from. And at some point the government just started saying if any amount of the funds in your wallet came from this protocol your whole shit's cooked. Like we will not accept any money from you ever. Right? So you would have people taking these tiny amounts of like these dust particles of money that they had washed through this thing and just sending it to everybody they hated because now they're sitting on it's like you're sitting on millions of dollars that like if you try to deposit this to an exchange they're going to say we don't accept your money because it's

1:57:14 illegal scam laundering money, right? Uh but the broader point with it is actually the media tried to do this with crypto as a whole by marking Bitcoin and all other cryptos as oh the only reason you would ever use this is for money laundering or crime. So anyone who accepts this is probably doing crime. >> Yeah. But like the idea is just so so it's but that's that worked because you know previously you could the other way to smuggle val you know like money over borders if you wanted to pay for things in from one place to another diamonds because they're small they they were small and they were valuable and it was something that you could easily move from point A to point B but like yeah so they they they replicated the attack

1:57:59 that they had on it. It's mimemetics. Everything is you learn. >> Actually, it's even broader. You can generalize this to guilt by association as a concept, but it's just being applied to currency. >> Yeah, >> that's true actually. [laughter] >> Yeah. But that's what moneyaundering a lot in in a lot of ways is. That's what like moneyaundering laws are. It's like it's like we don't know that you're not funding terrorism, so we'll just say that any transactions that we don't have legibility on could be used for funding terrorism. and therefore no transactions are allowed to be illegible to us. >> Yeah. Guilt by association. I I don't know, man. I've been going through a massive libertarian kick here recently. Guilt by association is one of those concepts that is just like

1:58:45 guilt by association and the reduction in your ability to freely associate I now would actually point to as like the things that did it. you know, like taking away freedom of association. That's the one thing that I think actually destroyed the country. >> I think the problem is that like no one would ever defend like I I know exactly what you're talking about, but like no one would ever defend the opposite of like the the opposite position is like, oh, this is a freedom of association thing. Um or or very very very few people would actually be like, oh, I'm defending this on the basis of freedom of association. Well, they put the stink on it. Like the the progressives put the stink on that phrase as a whole. Like they they said like they said that that phrase is code

1:59:31 for you want to be a racist >> and then and they succeeded in the mimemetics because they had mimemetic power to do it when it was when it was live and then no one wanted to defend it for that reason. I'm trying to avoid anything that's like like controversial specifically and I'm trying to be very um >> Yes, >> I'm trying to be very clear that I'm talking about the I'm talking about the meta level and not talking about like the specifics like I'm talking about >> Yeah, that's the other thing is like you you try to talk about the meta level without talking about the thing and it sounds so it sounds so goofy sometimes dude. >> Yeah. Well, no, but to me the interesting part is like the the like the progressive strategies are interesting and like how they work mimetically and like how they how they

2:00:17 like persuade people and like how they like associate it and it's like how it works on people who are low decouplers. Are you guys familiar with a low decoupling term? It's like a very uh >> the problem just a thing you do when you want to seem like you're >> more intelligent than everybody else and you're like well thing that is bad in 90% of situations isn't intrinsically bad. Look at this one situation where it's not intrinsically bad. Oh, you're owned now. [laughter] I think is isn't high decoupling? And this is this is one of those like Bay Area words where there's going to be someone in the comments saying, >> "I've never heard anybody talking like this in real life. This is crazy. Like, great great content, guys. Great podcast. But I got to say, it was really jarring hearing you say low decoupling

2:01:03 in person. Uh, we actually did get a comment almost verbatim saying that. >> Yes, [laughter] >> we got a comment saying like we're bay cells, which is super. >> Yeah, [laughter] they were like, "Do people in the Bay really talk like this?" And I'm like, "I am like I was born in the Midwest." Like [laughter] they talk like this in Kansas. It's spread everywhere now. The contagion is out of control. >> I mean, if you use Twitter heavily enough, the San Francisco terminology just kind of permeates into everything you say because that's where it's from. Like, everyone on Twitter is from San Francisco in some extent. I don't know, man. What else have you What else have you been up to besides driving around and picking up picking up GPUs, eating carrots? Dude, the satisfying crunch of

2:01:49 those carrots is making me want to eat a carrot. Does it sound I was wondering if you could hear it in the That's actually I didn't realize that you guys could all hear my carrot. That's super [ __ ] I'm gonna stop eating. >> I [clears throat] also love I love foods that crunch. I have a like a I any food that crunches I love. I don't even care what it tastes like, man. >> Well, I've got I've got just the food for you. >> What? What? >> Anyway, what were you saying? Thank you for listening to another episode of the plausibly deniable experience soon to be rebranded as confirmation bias >> potentially. >> What does the audience think? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. The audience wants

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